Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. Landing On Laythe Moon Of Jool Kerbal Space Program Youtube Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys - YouTube Content titles and body; Content titles only Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. Press J to jump to the feed. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Thanks for the help! Hello there. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Your link has been automatically embedded. Sub-orbital spaceflight - Wikipedia Anyway thanks in advance. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. You can post now and register later. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. Long distance airplane flight tips? - Kerbal Space Program Forums Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). Have you checked out the wiki yet? For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. ksp high altitude plane - digitalidentityorganization.com 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. High altitude planes - Kerbal Space Program Forums It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. More air is better. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. Kerbal Space Program - Wikipedia A destructible memorial to the old Mk. You cannot paste images directly. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. The benefits should be obvious. Your previous content has been restored. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. How can I make money in the new career mode? The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Air Flow + max. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. ksp high altitude plane. Tutorial: Making the AI fly | BDArmory Wikia | Fandom Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Upload or insert images from URL. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. Your previous content has been restored. These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. Welcome to the forums. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. Chapter 4. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. So Pvt. Laythe - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Very cool. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. Beginner's Guide: Tips and Basics - Kerbal Space Program 2 Wiki Guide - IGN I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. The high performance engine for me performs pretty good till about 15000 meter. It only takes a minute to sign up. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. You can post now and register later. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. KSP Delta-V Calculator - KSP HOW TO CALCULATE DELTA-V Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes - Arqade I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Let me. Clear editor. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? How do I align things in the following tabular environment? To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Pasted as rich text. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. Jet engine - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Valve Corporation. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Cheers again fellas. What altitude and speed should I go? Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Evidence. There is no such thing as "so high radar can not detect it", since radar can detect things in outer space. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. It will be expensive and time consuming. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. Ep. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. - Insane TWR didn't help. 2.) If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Early career high altitude observations question : r/KerbalAcademy Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. Why not keep the engine for multi-stage rockets? - Space Exploration Display as a link instead, The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. air) that high up. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . Pasted as rich text. Information Changelog Stats Planes in Space. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. edited 6 yr. ago. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. Delta-v budget - Wikipedia The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. Even if the air is thin, you can still put out plenty of power if you are shoving enough in with raw speed. Its an approximation missing someelements. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. What plane in existence can fly at the highest altitude, and - Quora By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft - YouTube Clear editor. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? rev2023.3.3.43278. For more information, please see our I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? Pvt. [Solved] 30 20 / Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. You need to do it with what you've got. (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References Upload or insert images from URL. Paste as plain text instead, Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. Cookie Notice A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. Powered by Invision Community. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. This thread is quite old. 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. Display as a link instead, But maybe your patience? Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! CONTROLABLE plane for ~20km altitude? :: Kerbal Space Program General - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. What determines the maximum altitude a plane can reach? That will unlock: Is it even possible? The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. You cannot paste images directly.
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