Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . . Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Sigs are crap! Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. Im more of a DS9 guy. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Unlawful Discharge of a Firearm: Texas Laws - The Law Office of Greg He was told to shoot two rounds. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. ALL OF THEM. It has nothing to do with Glock. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). Sig Sauer lawsuit: Man charged in wife's shooting death blames gun It has been flawless so far. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. Ron, Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? 1:07. Thats fine. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! Pistol misfire that injured soldier was an unpredictable accident - CBC I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Canadian soldier. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. LOL! A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Give me a break. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Yaaay! Fair enough. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Companies stay silent On Nov. 5, 2020, a recently-purchased SIG Sauer P320 pistol went off unexpectedly at a training range in Dwyer Hill, outside of Ottawa. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Kyle . That focus drifts. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum Really? to docile, too subtle, to contextual. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. But breaking news here, skippy. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). 2. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Plastic crap! Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? Thats the same. I agree. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. PSA-P320 Accidental Discharge Threads | SIG Talk He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. Search Texas Statutes. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. Because its flat out bull**it. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. Mine is very accurate. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Too Many Accidents Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. . It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! I continue to bet my life on them. . For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. About $300. who sells them? The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. three changes to the original design. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Special Forces pistol discharge not caused by technical failure Marine vet ICE agent sues Sig Sauer for $10M claiming pistol shot him PDs are dropping them from contracts. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. (It wasnt my gun). The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. No picture for me. Dude, your story is THREE years old. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Who knows. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Thats SIGs term for a recall. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! It has an unsafe takedown procedure that requires you to pull the trigger to get the slide off. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Lawsuit: Sig Sauer pistol fired without trigger pull - Portsmouth Herald There were a lot of changes. On Thursday, M.D. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Detective Brittney Hilton sues Sig Sauer after she says holstered P320 A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Its a novelty, its got issues! Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. P320 X Compact is it safe CCW | SIG Talk The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. 3. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. . Time will tell if no. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. Grow up, you aint all that! But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. . The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. LOL! Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Sound familiar? Third, Glock has had problems, too. Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. Nope. brakes, remember? Let us look at the history of other consumer products. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. I also have a manual safety. Look a fanboy. There was no holster involved.
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